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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, January 18, 2005 - 6:37 PM
Light and Enlightenment
Enlightenment, what does it mean?
Big topic. It needs a context. something that is easy for anyone to departure from. Aha! How about "LIGHT."
From that vantage point, one can go 1 of 4 ways to cover the sphere of consciousness. (Enlightenment and consciousness?)
4 categories
1. Physical descriptions of light (pertaining to
material life)
2. Emotional descriptions of light found in art
and design.
3. Mental descriptions of light pertaining to
formulas and numbers.
4. Abstract and Astral descriptions of light
using the first previous three.
Light as a literal, metaphysical, symbolic and personal concept is the the key to exploring parts of the concept of enlightenment. The 4 vantage points are good tools to consider because they describe the different views and tensions found in the left and right hemispheres of the brain.
Similarily speaking the two hemispheres represent the metaphorical artist (right side) and scientist (left side). Enlightenment must accommodate some sort of a union between these two metaphors of the artist and scientist.
There is a visual tool that has been developped to assist this accommodation for grasping the idea of union and unity. It is quite a contradiction to the standard notion of thought which has a difficult time grasping the union of opposites). The tool deals with bridging opposites to yield the maximum potential.
In the event that "someone" is enlightened, you can bet that both sides of the brain are working in unison and helping to facilitate a greater level of light (or chi energy) within the physical body. The information about this effect is called a full body coherence which can be found on the web.)
Bridging opposites hey? Thats right! Even the concept of bridging opposites has slipped the field of mathematics. Maybe thats why no one in the history of the noble peace prize laureates has ever one a prize for proving with mathematics that peace is the bridging of opposites.
I mean you hear all the time about peace and enlightenment, but when people try to wrap their heads around it, the fog (or veil) gets too dense to dissipate. I think part of that reason is because it exists without exception in our programming that opposites just do not mix, but in an infinite universe all things are possible. Especially enlightenment and being able to grasp it is no far stretch.
Naturally one would ask..."well, how do i attain enlightenment?" but being enlightened occurs on a daily basis, and there are many levels to that degree. How far do you want to go? A good question to ask about enlightenment and to validate its presence is, what are the effects? Like it was stated earlier, the two sides (hemispheres) of the brain are completely active with one another.
The categories used to identify the topic of "light and enlightenment" are good because they also point (partially) to nature of human consciousness and its make up. Sometimes, when we're being hard headed its easy to forget that we have other characteristics that make up our being and which are not absolutely physical. This is a reason why these categories are used to investigate the topic of 'light and enlightenment." -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Wed, January 19, 2005 - 6:47 PMdamn fine work rudy!! I would give you a nobel peace prize for this one if I had any to hand out! here's my gold star of approval instead... and a cookie :p
I have some sketches in an old notebook that describes much of the same stuff... written of course from my own perspective. It's cool to see this "light" translated in so many different ways.
thanks rudeboy <~ I hope you don't mind me calling you that but it's the first thing that comes to mind when I read your name... I thought all rudeboys lived in kingston town. -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, January 20, 2005 - 10:18 AMThere's a man in India named Kalki Bhagavan who says that enlightenment is a way of perceiving that the thoughts that come into your head are not yours. All thoughts exist in the core of the planet and all people receive them like a radio receives its transmissions. Once you realize that the thoughts are not yours, you can let them go. Once you let them go, you are enlightened. He says in 2012 there will be a polar shift that will in essence erase all thoughtforms from the core and from us and we can all start fresh.
www.urday.com/kalki/index.asp
It's very interesting reading.
I've also heard there is a "moon chamber", a hollow part in the center of our brain, that can be tuned ionically to receive *higher* vibrations.
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Fri, January 21, 2005 - 1:20 PMI'd like to hear everyones definition of enlightenment. Mine comes from Rogers work and he may correct me when he arrives.
The permanent attachment of the light body to the physical body. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Mon, January 24, 2005 - 10:56 AMAUM
What is Enlightnement?
For me enlightenment is the nature of consciousness . . . I also experience enlightenment as beyond the enlightened/not enlightened duality. Therefore I relate to enlightenment as depolarised consciousness. That is perception that does not see separation and does not participate with dualistic thoughts, residing always in the seat of intrinsic awareness. However, enlightenment is more than just a mental state. For me, enlightenment is also the rose of compassion.
To be an enlightened human is to embody our original nature, feeling and knowing ourselves to be the unblemished jewel of isness and the light unto the world. A Buddha, a Christ, A Mahatma . . . God/dess awake and aware as human.
I Am the Light, The Truth and The Way!
I also understand that there are 'levels' of enlightenment (in seeming) which are also related to the degree of incarnation an individual has achieved. That is how much of their Divine Self they have grounded into their humanness.
When I see some one who has attained an enlightenment I say 'they carry an enlightenment'. We are all capable of 'carrying' enlightenment; indeed we are designed to do so! The first 'stage' of this is the realisation that to harm another is to harm oneself. Usually we become more aware of our enlightenment from this point. However we do not need to understand our enlightenment as enlightenment in order to be enlightened.
It could be said that human’s are often not aware of their enlightenment. This is not to say this they are not enlightened . . . so all we are required to cultivate is our own awareness of our self-existing enlightenment. Then we will realise (make real) our experience of our own enlightenment (one hopes that we will not get attached to this experience of enlightenment as it could become a distraction from further enlightenment). ;-)
In the words of Zen Master Dogen “Attention means Attention means Attention”.
AUM -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Mon, January 24, 2005 - 5:02 PMFor me enlightenement is observing something in full light. -
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the 5th Element
Tue, January 25, 2005 - 4:54 PMThere is one value for light not mentioned in the first four yet presumed by this entire thread and discussion.
Its presence is necessary to life and held as the measure of *good*.
It absence is deemed a threat and invokes dread in terms of threat and *evil*,
Look at the examples like the destructive force of Black Holes or *Dark Forces*.
And as in the life giving positive energy of the Sun.
This is not simply an abstraction and doesn't really fit into the first four categories. Plants eat light to survive, we survive because of plants. Hence we can perhaps think of this fifth category as a fifth *elemental property* of light. This is a value of light that is not limited to human perspectives or awareness at all yet includes us. -
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Re: the 5th Element
Tue, January 25, 2005 - 6:01 PMOn the other hand, there are some theories that "black" holes actually created the galaxies in which they reside. And that "dark" matter is simply the unmanifest, that which has not manifest on the physical plane. Certainly nothing evil about that! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
What is the 5th element?
Tue, January 25, 2005 - 6:46 PMLazarus:
To bring you to speed and anyone else who finds lazarus point of itnerest and value, there is a paper worth reading about Light and mathematics. view: lightmathematics, the paper!
Indeed what you talk about (for lack of a better term), is shadow. Shadow is light, although people do not recognize as such. It is the reciprocal of the relationship between light, the and the object.
Anyways...the four initial categories are starters, and the break up into twelve units, and those twelve break up into more...., but its important that the idea of shadow (for lack of a better term), has been brought up.
The point that lazarus brings up is present within the four, infact its present within each of the four....
Physical plane_well shadow is certainly present.
Emotional plane_well, the interpretations of shadow is still present...(it constitutes all that we believe to be negative)
Mental plane_well, the idea of deconstruction is the mental complement of negative emotions. so...shadow is present.
Astral Plane_well, the black emptiness of space (outter) is the macrocosmic relationship to the shadows that we see on earth, which being the microscopic.
The dark matter theory fits into the idea of shadow as well. "Matter is simply the unmanifest, that which has not manifest on the physical plane."_i like the sounds of that, which reminds me of how light expands into matter.
But if there was no light, what would there be? There would be the primordial the aether. Just close your eyes and view it. That eather and the shadow that you see on the side of light, actually complete the loop together. They are of the same inherent nature.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: the 5th Element
Tue, January 25, 2005 - 6:47 PMI am not suggesting all that is dark is evil, that is the human interpretation but light and dark force are the balance for life.
The forces of light that inhabit our over-world and the forces of dark that compost death to help give us life.
Evil is how this that force often felt instinctively but actually it is just the anthropomorphizing of the unknown and near toxic lifeforms that thrive off death, recycling through anaerobic life to give us our aerobic one.
Perhaps it is the primal fear of pathogen but the Black Holes end life for they end time. If that is a part of the theory for how time begins, well...
Perhaps that is another story. ;-)
Nonetheless it is a fifth form of light. :) -
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Unsu...
What is the 5th element?
Tue, January 25, 2005 - 6:50 PMLazarus:
To bring you to speed and anyone else who finds lazarus point of itnerest and value, there is a paper worth reading about Light and mathematics. view: lightmathematics, the paper!
Indeed what you talk about (for lack of a better term), is shadow. Shadow is light, although people do not recognize as such. It is the reciprocal of the relationship between light, the and the object.
Anyways...the four initial categories are starters, and the break up into twelve units, and those twelve break up into more...., but its important that the idea of shadow (for lack of a better term), has been brought up.
The point that lazarus brings up is present within the four, infact its present within each of the four....
Physical plane_well shadow is certainly present.
Emotional plane_well, the interpretations of shadow is still present...(it constitutes all that we believe to be negative)
Mental plane_well, the idea of deconstruction is the mental complement of negative emotions. so...shadow is present.
Astral Plane_well, the black emptiness of space (outter) is the macrocosmic relationship to the shadows that we see on earth, which being the microscopic.
The dark matter theory fits into the idea of shadow as well. "Matter is simply the unmanifest, that which has not manifest on the physical plane."_i like the sounds of that, which reminds me of how light expands into matter.
But if there was no light, what would there be? There would be the primordial aether. Just close your eyes and view it. That eather and the shadow that you see on the side of light, actually complete the loop together. They are of the same inherent nature.
PS: Could you talk more about the 5th element, Lazarus? Its intrigues.
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, January 27, 2005 - 11:17 AMi agree with the cappy, in maurice cotterrell's book the Tutankhamun prophecies, he found clues in pacal votan's and tutankhamun's tomb that have to do with a frequency code of light. the code of 144,000 was on the forehead of both. he states that this represented the ability to emit light from their physical bodies. just as christ is always portrayed with a halo, thus the abillity to emit light. i highly recommend this book for any loking to understand "light". here is the link although the info is somewhat limited compared to the book. www.mauricecotterell.com/03tut...vw.htm
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Wed, February 23, 2005 - 7:39 PMWe all have made up stories about our lives.......enlightenment is what you have made up about it..................................If you could not comprehend by language.................THE EXPERIENCE.............is what it would be!
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, January 27, 2005 - 3:05 AMThis a magazine on this subject: www.wie.org/ -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, January 27, 2005 - 4:03 AMa very extensive site, lots of interesting stuff ! -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, January 27, 2005 - 5:43 AMI like the idea of the MA (see bottom of the home page) in Consious Evolution!! Would have to go to the states for that! -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, January 27, 2005 - 10:00 AMI learned from all the defintions. I will post what i started with.
to me is coming into conciousness and getting to know the spirit or source.
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Wed, February 9, 2005 - 11:49 AMWhat is the meaning of a wet pig falling down the stairs? -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Thu, February 10, 2005 - 7:41 AMsun
lights everywhere
warms ground
clears darkness
no discrimination -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Fri, February 11, 2005 - 11:39 PMEnlightenment would be the awareness of all things according to the nature of their being without bias. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Sat, February 12, 2005 - 11:37 AMI'm with Whiteagle on this one: NOTHING -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 12:29 AMI disagree completely. Enlightenment is EVERYTHING! ...Knowing it by feeling it and listening to it regardless of what the consequences may be. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 1:30 AMI have gone through this thread and it seems to be at the heart of what this tribe is about. I have a wondering about enlightenment that I would like to share to further the enquiry.
Is enlightenment a word to describe an experience like pregnancy that is very real? Meaning in every culture, no matter what word they use and no matter what interpretation they may have...pregnancy is pregnancy. Pregnancy is a word describing something real You are or you are not.
You may think you are pregnant but that does not mean a child will be born in 9 months. You have to BE pregnant.
You may have an orgasm and think that is pregnancy. You may believe that when you had an orgasm for the first time you believed you were pregnant because there had to be some grand signal to show something amazing had occured. You couldn't imagine that pregnancy would happen without a trumpet sounding.
Could not the same be for enlightenment? Along the way we have many incredible experiences, but there are long stretches of not so incredible experiences. Those peak experiences are addictive, we like them for they give us a taste of what we hunger for....deeper connection.
So if there is a process to be enlightened most likely it comes from someone who is already enlightened. Thats a big difference with pregnancy. Just because you are pregnant does not mean that you will induce pregnancy in another. But you sure can share similair experiences...ya I threw up too...right on my boyfriend as he lay there asleep...
When I first posted my answer and started the thread it was connected to work with Roger Joyeux who is a member of this tribe but he is immersed in writing his follow up book to The Story of Light.
He has a process of inducing enlightenment. He explains it in his first book the Story of Light. It is the best explanation of enlightenment i have seen. He increases your vibration through crystals, your guides, his guides and you lying on a copper table. He does this over a few sessions to the point your vibration is high enough. Then your light body is permanently connected to your physical body.
Now I did not experience a great wow...he says by the time it occurs it is almost like nothing occured. I find there is a gentle slope of increasing awareness. Enough to see how ignorant I am in a lot of areas..more light to spot the shadow...and then its still a process of integrating those fragments of self that are wounded.
This just seems very different from many of the descriptions I have read. So I question those descriptions. I don't begin to know all of the dynamics of enlightenment or how it can happen in people. I do know the illusionary nature of language and words when we fool ourselves into believing we know the meaning of the word when we have no direct experience with what the word represents.
I do honor Rogers work though as he speaks from a place of knowing. I have been to many people, and like you have gone to the courses, read the books and have developed my own spiritual practices. I have noticed we all have specialities and knowledge in areas that others do not.
The fun is finding other souls on the path and exchanging what we have learned. I do not see the future as a guru type environment, which is more piscean, but all of us as excited neurons dipping into the sea of universal consciousness and swimming about.
I see enlightenment as a needed pit stop where we get our upgrade and we still have to go on and keep pursuing whatever we have decided to create. -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 1:37 AMYes, enlightenment in the old Piscean, and pre-Piscean world, usually had to depend on one-on-ones, direct inducement.
The coming aquarian mode, could be seen as us being able to immerse in the collectively sentient field, rather than having separate access points.
In this sense, enlightenment could be seen as a special case of manifested collective sentience. -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 1:43 AMWell I get the sense and have experienced much greater energetic connections when sitting around the harmonizer table especially when there are over 7 people, 9 feeling the strongest. I also know that group energy can induce a higher ability for all of the individfuals to access the sentient field you are talking of. In this way I would surmise that individual enlightenment in the form of the light body having a permanent home would come about through group connectivity, sacred geometry and having the right crystals to allow the light body to descend through the higher dimensions. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 1:54 AMyes, very very similar to how I have experienced it -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 8:27 AM"The Love of God, unutterable and perfect,
flows into a pure soul the way that light
rushes into a transparent object.
The more love that it finds, the more it gives
itself; so that, as we grow clear and open,
the more complete the joy of heaven is.
And the more souls who resonate together,
the greater the intensity of their love,
and mirror-like, each soul reflects the other."
-Dante
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Sat, November 11, 2006 - 11:10 AMI've been reading through and I'm not sure of what you're honestly looking for here as you seem to have your own answer before asking the question. However, raising ones vibrational level does not increase their level of understanding on it's own, any more than sharing ones energy, by re-energizing one who is weaker or low. It is similar to saying because one hangs around those who call themselves enlightened masters, they are now one as well, or that they've learned something, when their actions show they have learned little or nothing at all.
The pregnancy comparrison has a few flaws, for eg. just because you ARE pregnant does not mean you will HAVE a baby. Are you relating enlightenment to all the changing that occurs when first getting pregnant, and then carrying the baby to full term, and then having the baby or in just being pregnant?
You said; "This just seems very different from many of the descriptions I have read. So I question those descriptions." I respectfully share this thinking with you..."To find the right answers, you must first find the right questions". There is a world of difference between 'knowing what something says' and 'understanding what it means'...between 'talking the talk' and 'walking the walk'.
You seem to seek to define that which you do not fully understand. It might be wiser to understand first, that which you are seeking to define. Eliminate eveything it is not and whatever is left, must then be.
Then you will become more AWARE and how enlightening will that be? As long as none of those excited neurons dipping into the sea of universal consciousness are swimming about in your space eh? I hope your search goes well...remember, just like successfully landing a plane...it's all in the approach. It's not really a successful landing, even when the pilot walks away, if all the passengers die.
your humble servant,
ancient clown
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 1:31 AMyup
Every-thing, and no-thing, and all the entities in-between.
The actual light aspect of the en-light-en-ment, is usually due to etheric fields compressing and de-compressing.
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 12:27 AM"What is the meaning of a wet pig falling down the stairs? "
1. A family's friend and pet may suffer and die, bringing tragedy and suffering to those that care for the poor little piggy.
2. Bacon, ham and sausage for weeks.
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 2:06 PMEnlightenment is falling in love with the soul of the universe; staying enlightened is a commitment to change as encouraged by your lover.
Thank GOD!
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Sat, March 5, 2005 - 12:02 AMWhat is enlightenment? Sure is a thought provoking question. It’s like asking what is God? Maybe enlightenment and God are the same thing. And, maybe not.
What is clear is that: once a person starts thinking about the answer, lots of different notions come to the surface. Here we are on the third dimension attempting to understand how we got here, how the universe works, and a vast horde of queries that seem to generate ever more questions. Just look at the ideas that have come through on this tribe and thread. I have noticed some common ground among some of the offerings and this is a good start. What I have noticed over the years is that the discussion about metaphysical topics usually differs most in the language used. Some people call one idea one thing and other people call the same idea something else. I assert that we are usually saying the same thing in many tongues. Call it the Tower of Babel syndrome. I believe that if enough time and listening went on, we would find that, by and large, we are usually in agreement. The more mature the arguments put forward, the closer they become. What I perceive is that we need a common language to define what it is we are talking about.
So, having said that, I would like to put forward an approach to the question: What is enlightenment? Shall I say, I am advancing some parameters for discussion.
In a sentence: our understanding of enlightenment needs to come from our own plane of existence, which is the third dimension, the physical plane.
The very immediate observation that clinches this need is pure logic. That is, enlightenment is a strictly third dimensional phenomenon. Can anyone say that their personal angelic guides who dwell in the upper dimensions need to walk the spiritual path to achieve enlightenment? The heavens are already enlightened! There is no need to be spiritual above this physical plane because everything is already spiritual. Above this Earth plane, the light is all pervasive, all encompassing, and the real choice in the heavens amounts to choosing one form of love or another form of love. The archangels have not been granted the choice to choose what is not love. But, we have. We can choose to “not love”. Or, we can choose to love.
So being on Earth is not like being in the heavens---pretty obvious eh!
There are numerous concepts to understand before one’s understanding reaches the realization that we did not come to Earth as enlightened beings. The first concept is that we can choose to “not be enlightened”. But, we can also choose to be enlightened. The choice concept is a tangent which (for my buddy Rudy could probably be calculated using a pi square or something) needs to be given consideration. Ask yourself: Did I choose to come to this Earth in this life to be enlightened or not?
Beyond the choice tangent, enlightenment is an Earthly endeavour. It follows the journey that one takes on the spiritual path. The main point I am making is that because enlightenment is an Earthly endeavour, it conforms to conceptual thinking that our minds on Earth can understand. Enlightenment can be defined using ideas that our minds can work with. Mathematics has some validity in setting up an understanding from the perspective of the mathematician. Buddism has validity in setting up an understanding from the perspective of the Buddist. Love has validity in setting up an understanding from the perspective of the lover. Enlightenment is not a concept that comes from higher dimensions. Higher dimensions do not need to be any more enlightened than they already are.
So let me say in plain English, because English is our language and our source of understanding, enlightenment conforms to third dimensional definition. It is not some nebulous concept that we can say comes from heaven. We may perceive that the heavens are enlightened and aspire to be like the heavens, but the work of enlightenment is absolutely limited to our physical plane.
The choice to be enlightened is a good start, whether the chooser knows what that means or not. Another choice that obviously has significant relevance to this thread is the choice to understand enlightenment and discover answers that apply. To get anywhere with clearing up “what is enlightenment?” begins with realizing that the answer follows the rules that apply to the third dimension. REASON applies. Reason is a third dimensional frame of reference. Further, the answer cannot be satisfied in the higher planes. We can look to the heavens to discover the nature of enlightenment, yet to make it work on Earth, to bring our own understanding to completion here and now, we need to employ frames of reference that are third dimensional. I suggest that logic can take a person a thousand steps forward on the spiritual path to enlightenment. A thousand steps should take only five minutes to walk, yet without first satisfying logic the next thousand steps is impossible.
Logical concept #1: enlightenment is an Earthly endeavour.
In service to the light,
S. Roger Joyeux -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Sat, March 5, 2005 - 7:19 AMHi Roger,
Good stuff. I entirely disagree with you. :)
<< So let me say in plain English, because English is our language and our source of understanding, enlightenment conforms to third dimensional definition. It is not some nebulous concept that we can say comes from heaven. We may perceive that the heavens are enlightened and aspire to be like the heavens, but the work of enlightenment is absolutely limited to our physical plane. >>
This physical plane is a crystallization of ideas. The idea (the word) comes first and then there is the creation. If we can accept this as a premise then we can say that any idea is not bound to the three dimensional world. It creates above and then the effect propagates below, crystallizing into denser forms. First it's in the heavens, then it's in the earth, then the abyss.
If we only knew the power of the word -- whether it is thought, spoken, or demonstrated through action -- maybe we wouldn't use so many of them. Simplicity is Beautiful.
If we can't accept this type of "radical idealism" perhaps we should stop talking about love, math, enlightenment, and all such things. If the idea is not superior to the physical manifestation, then the physical manifestation will drive the ideas according to its machinery. Then we're just cogs in the wheel, and this conversation we're having is absolutely meaningless.
However, if we can accept that it is the word which drives the physical manifestation, we must question the mechanisms of this process as well. Obviously, it must be mechanical to some extent or the whole world would be a chaotic void. Though it is still a machine, the mechanisms are different, because they operate on the WORD.
The Gita says we have a right to the action, but not to the fruits. We have a right to plant the seed of the Word, but the mechanism is going to take it from there. Therefore, it would be wise to plant the best of Words so that the Law will bring forth the best of fruits.
Accepting the above, we can no longer say that any word is confined to three dimensions. It is the word which defines the world, so how could they be confined within it?
Personally, I think we have nothing without Death -- the radical and grossly misunderstood power of our Divine Mother Kundalini. Divine Mother Kundalini is the greatest of gurus, the wisest of the wise, ever merciful, and all compassionate.
What child on Earth can boast, "I was not born of a woman."? Should we suppose it is any different in Heaven? Jesus was born of a woman, as was the Buddha. We must make an attempt to remember our Mother, who is always right here and right now. After all, there is no place else.
We should find that place within us where we know nothing and know we know nothing. We should return to zero many times throughout the day. We should become basic.
Oddly enough, being so simple is terribly difficult. We prefer to weigh ourselves down with abstract philosophy, allegories, senseless worries and speculation.
To be born is simple. To die is simple. Everything between the two is difficult. Why? Because we make it so! Why? Because we enjoy the complications!
But how hard is it for a child to love its mother? It is not hard at all. There is no expectation, no questioning, no speculation, no worrying. It is simple.
Divine Mother Kundalini makes death a dying life and life a living death. Simple! Divine Mother Kundalini is the most Beautiful because she is the most Simple -- what then do we have to think about?
Peace,
Denny -
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Sat, March 5, 2005 - 1:18 PMRoger has some great points that can be used as grounding factors for 'simple' peoples to proceed along the road of understanding not enlightenment, but the 'choice' to be it.
"Beyond the choice tangent, enlightenment is an Earthly endeavour....The heavens are already enlightened!...So being on Earth is not like being in the heavens---pretty obvious eh!"__S. Roger
Denny has some good points about simplicity, yet simplicity should never come at the expense of sacrificing knowledge. I can only assume that that kind of simplicity Denny is talking about is directed as viewing knowledge as complex. Returning back to a sense of trust within ourselves does not require a critical analysis_'this, we call all understand'. -But who we are, or better yet, the state of affairs that the universe has set up for planet earth and its inhabitants has proven through out the years that it has always been a combination of simple and 'complex' thought that has brought peoples to states of enlightenment. This includes EVERYBODY that has taken the road to the other side, and may return to value simplicity.
There is an advantage between the two states of understanding, of simplicity and complexity. Who is to say? (is it not because we do percieve things to be complex due to our own lack of foresight? __Im sure that there exists peoples who can take one persons 'complex words and view them as simple.) So it would appear that the point about different 'languages' or ideas that we come towards the word with our own vocabulary coes up again. Ofcourse we all just want to be, and should be and live in the truth of simplicity, but is it realistic given that as humans beings, our drive is to communicate and learn to surpass our "physical metaphorical boundaries." If that is to happen, simplicity must be challenged, and when it is, i think that that becomes that the moments(s) when a person can return to it.
If a person has trust and faith in simplicity, but no appreciation for complex thought, how much wisdom does he possess? Appreciating complex thought and finding its simplistic structures is not the same as a being complex.
OR
If a person has an appreciation for simplicity, does he not have due to their understanding of complex thought? What is simplicity in light of complexity? At both ends of the extreme, are they not the same thing? Asking these questions is what we do here, but no to confuse each other. Having Denny point out that simplicity is the key is also good because it can bring us back to what matters, yet one must understanding where the two meet.
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Sun, March 6, 2005 - 10:35 AMHi Denny,
I am grateful for your abrupt honesty.
I have a few questions about how you are interpreting certain concepts. I'm sure that once we are both talking about apples and not apples and oranges, we might find common ground. Perhaps you may even soften your "entire disagreement with me".
1. You mention "Mother Kundalini".
(a) It is my understanding that gender specificity is heading towards androgeny. How do you come to equate Kundalini with the Mother.
(b) How are you interpreting Kundalini? How far does your definition go? Sorry, but I don't have Sanskrit as a second language, so please use common terms.
2. You also equate Kundalini with death. I would appreciate understanding why you are giving death such a prominent place juxtaposed with Kundalini.
3. Simplicity is crutial indeed. You may want to read my post under "Darkness and Entrapment" regarding the attainment of the State of the One. I believe this might "be" the simplest of understandings. None the less, Rudy is right. To communicate, peace will have to be made with complexity. We are complex beings to whom simiplicity is important. Would you not submit that to arrive at simplicity, we need to unravel the complexities of our place on Earth first?
As a comment, and perhaps a defense of my post, seeking enlightenment is something we do on Earth. If we were enlightened upon arrival on this plane, there would be no need to seek enlightenment or journey on the spiritual path. We come from an enlightened place in the heavens and return to this enlightenment, yet while on Earth, enlightenment starts with a choice. Most of the world has yet to make this choice. So, the object is not to take ourselves out of this plane to the higher realms where we experience the euphoria of the all encompassing light that we already are. Any experienced meditator can do that. The object is to work with our physical existence and body to bring the all encompassing love and divine universe here. And so, while some of us are experienced, many are not. To walk the path to enlightenment, the devotee starts by realizing where he or she is. Our consciousness is Earth-centered. The perception that the spiritual path begins in some place other than Earth defies reality. I hope we can carry on a discourse without having to justify that we are indeed on Earth.
How would you answer my questions?
in service to the light,
SRJoYeux -
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Re: What is enlightenment?
Sun, March 6, 2005 - 8:30 PM1) Mother is simply addressing the feminine side of the superior aspect, which is half of the androgeny you speak of.
2) Like you say, anybody can meditate for hours on end and achieve some time in the causal world, but then they come right back and are bottled up inside of the Ego immediately.
It's interesting that most experience the causal plane as pure light. This is because most don't have the body required to comprehend the dimension in full context.
We can escape for a moment, but why can't we stay? It's because we don't have the bodies. Why don't we have the bodies? Because the multiplicity of the "I" is using all of our energy.
Through meditation, we can leave the Ego temporarily, but then we come back and there it is again. This temporary state of affairs is no good. The Ego continues on in every corner of the mind.
To liberate ourselves, we must die a profound mystical death. This is the teaching of the Christ.
Divine Mother Kundalini is the magical fire of purification. She is the serpent power that wants to devour us and transform us into solar beings.
The Ego is Time. We are bottled up in Time. We must escape from Time. How? Death! Isn't it simple?
Think about it -- if the Ego is Time, we cannot make spiritual progress in relation to Time.
Time is a LIE! Spiritual evolution through time is a LIE!
Ego wants us to be patient and passive, but no! We should have none of it! We should master ourselves from instant to instant, right here and right now.
This is possible with our Divine Mother.
Divine Mother can show us what we're missing, how we're being tricked, where we've let our guard down, any stupid ideas we've constructed, etc.
She is a practical teacher 100% of the way. A man doesn't even have to know how to read in order to learn the profound wisdom that comes from his Mother. He simply has to ask.
We are as much in the Milky Way as we are on the Earth. :)
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Unsu...
Re: What is enlightenment?
Sun, March 6, 2005 - 8:56 PMWe are as much in the Milky Way as we are on the Earth. :) _Denny
"Duality well bridged. most stilling and insightful. i add that 'time is a lie', is a concept that should not be pondered by simple peoples. Most stillling and leads me to ponder or must i ju
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